Malfeasance At Visit Wales And The Welsh Government
Wales Outdoors is listed on Visit Britain and Visit Cardiff but NOT on Visit Wales…This is a timeline of my attempts to have Visit Wales work in the public and Welsh tourism interests and simply have a level playing field for providers and to engage with the industry that brings visitors into Wales. What follows is not an exhaustive list of malfeasance at Visit Wales but just one small tourism provider’s experiences.
Background to the Wales Outdoors ongoing dispute with Visit Wales. Full details with links to detailed articles follow…
Sometime 2005 WTB spend £££’s on Website and contracted a web designer in Australia to do it. That website is now gone… How much have they spent since?
February 2006 As Wild As You Want It is publicly funded but promoting some over others. That website is now gone… https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/as-wild-as-you-want-it
Likely 2008 Mathew Evans, rumoured to be the son of the head of the WTB, won the publishing contract for Activity Wales Magazine. That magazine is now gone…
Sometime 2008 Visit Wales admitted promoting some over others and promised to do something about it…
Sometime 2010 Wales in Style evidences nepotism. Their publicly funded website stopped updating when they received the final grant payment… https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/visit-wales-waste-cash
April 2012 Visit Wales admitted promoting some over others and promised to do something about it…
I took a break from arguing with those with rocks in their ears until they removed Wales Outdoors from their platform…
May 2020 Visit Wales bulk remove guided walk providers, including Wales Outdoors, from their website, without engaging with the providers or the tourism industry
June 2020 Visit Wales returns no guided walk providers in a guided walk search on their website. This remains the case today.
August 2020 Wales Outdoors admonishes Visit Wales for not engaging with guided walk providers
September 2020 Wales Outdoors admonishes Visit Wales for funding start ups offering the same provision as Wales Outdoors
November 2020 Wales Outdoors complains about the ‘We’re Good To Go’ scheme
October 2021 Visit Wales notified of multiple businesses offering the same walks as Wales Outdoors that they were listing without accreditation
November 2021 Notice given that something must be done about uncredited businesses or allowing Wales Outdoors onto the Visit Wales website
November 2021 Multiple phone calls and emails including detailed evidence of Visit Wales platforming some but not Wales Outdoors.
December 2021 Vaughan Gething notified of impending court action
December 2021 Small claim filed with the court service
June 2022 Court case to be heard. I was given just a few day’s notice that the Welsh Gov would seek to have the case struck out. The judge said this was ‘very unusual’. The case was not heard.
July 2022 Multiple outcomes for Visit Wales to work on outlined at a meeting none of which were then implemented.
September 2022 Meeting with Visit Wales management who assured me that work was ongoing and that implementation of outcomes would continue. None of the outcomes have been implemented.
October 2022 Wales Outdoors on Visit Britain but not on Visit Wales!
November 2022 Apologies from Visit Wales
December 2022 Mp, MS and Vaughan Gething notified that no guided walk businesses were listed on Visit Wales (not true as they had been hidden as attractions and that category I was not searching)
April 2023 Visit Wales says they are still working on engagement. Said I could get a degree in Health and Safety and self certify.
August 2023 I began listing uncredited businesses offering the same as Wales Outdoors and asking for their removal. There are very many all hiding under the category attraction or as walking festivals or copy for the Ramblers etc. I demand the removal of them all or the platforming of Wales Outdoors.
August 2023 I received notice that one listing had been removed. It still has not been removed
August 2023 I sent 35 examples of businesses offering walks the same or similar to Wales Outdoors and being listed on the Visit Wales platform. I’m sure there are many more. These 35 remain there today.
September 2023 Multiple emails and failures to attend meetings by Visit Wales staff. Visit Wales, Dawn Bowden and Vaughan Gething will not answer the questions I have raised or look at the examples I have sent. The Welsh Government have conflated my FOI request, for my own data, with my questions and examples and will not respond to me on any matter until November 20th 2023.
In the meantime Wales Outdoors is discriminated against, is unfairly disadvantaged in the tourism marketplace and is most definitely losing income because of the unfair competition that I’ve clearly evidenced.
Visit Wales is not and has never been fit for purpose. It truly is time for change.
Many have voiced their concerns to me regarding Visit Wales. Most feel powerless, even those that have influence in tourism in Wales.
This document is available as a PDF - message me and I’ll send it to you.
What follows are the bullet points listed but expanded with evidence, either links to my own blog articles or text from email exchanges with those involved.
Sometime in 2008 Meeting with Jon Munro, Visit Wales
I complained about nepotism and the promoting of two or three businesses over and above all other adventure activity businesses. It was agreed that this was mismanagement but that if I wanted Visit Wales could promote me in this manner too. I declined, wanting the promotion of all providers equally, so a level playing field. This was promised but it was never delivered.
May 2012 Wales In Style
I complained in 2012 about the funding of Wales In Style website, a by invite site, funded by Visit Wales to the tune of £240,000, which achieved nothing and posted nothing new following its final grant payment. https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/visit-wales-waste-cash
April 2012 Meeting with Jonathan Jones, Visit Wales. Attending Andrew Lamb, Gary Evans (now the Visit Wales Tech Advisor) and Punch Maughan (then chair of Brecon Beacons Tourism).
From the minutes of the meeting:
Jo Jones offered his own apologies for the dissatisfaction expressed by Andrew, Gary and Punch.
The frustration that despite concerns raised by AL / GE over a 10 year period some operators consistently gain profile from VW in editorial and marketing on the web and in print – this had been raised at AL’s recent meeting with Mike McGivern & Jon Munro. JJ offered apologies for the seeming lack of attention & asked what solutions could be found to ensure staff do not fall back on known businesses when looking for copy.
Visit Wales websites should be moderated so that it is not possible for activity operators to enter multiple copies of their product.
May 2020 - This action was taken after I invited engagement with the industry by Visit Wales - Lesley Beaumont @ Gov.Wales said ‘We are currently undertaking an audit of the listings on visitwales.com and any listings not registered correctly will be removed. We are also reviewing and updating our systems and processes.
https://walesoutdoors.co.uk/moans/visit-wales/ Visit Wales would rather delete legitimate businesses than talk to them!
June 2020 Critique of Visit Wales’ accreditation scheme
and the zero uptake by guides which searches, such as, ‘Walking in Snowdonia’, return this:
1 Licensed adventure activity provider
4 listings not offering walking at all
3 self guided walk providers with multiple listings so making 13 listings
1 farm walk where you guide a sheep on a leash for an hour
https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/visit-wales
August 3rd 2020 - email to Mari Steven Visit Wales
The action taken by VisitWales in deleting all guided walk providers and the manner in which this occurred is unforgivable. Reaching out and having a discussion with the industry, with those businesses affected, would have been reasonable but simply removing without warning?
September 23rd 2020 - Phone meeting with Visit Wales senior manager where ‘I made it clear that if Wales Outdoors was in any way negatively affected by the Welsh Government funding any currently operating or start-up business that Wales Outdoors would be taking the Welsh Government to Cardiff Courts for reparation.’
https://walesoutdoors.co.uk/moans/visit-wales-again/
November 2020 Visit Wales promote Clyne Farm
and tell tourists that Wales is closed with no timeline for re-opening https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/visit-wales-2
November 2020 Public money wasted on another unnecessary scheme
https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/you-couldnt-make-it-up
December 2020 Visit Wales recap
Visit Wales deletion of the majority of guided walk businesses from the platform leads to ZERO being returned on a guided walk search on their site. Also of multiple listings from the same provider, revisiting a promise made in April 2012 to end this and noted as a failure. Notice was also given of the unsafe practices of accredited adventure activity providers. https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/visit-wales-again
October 26th 2021 - Notice given to Visit Wales
of multiple businesses listed without accreditation and a demand that something be done immediately about this.
November 3rd 2021 - Phone call to Lesley Beaumont at Visit Wales
Final notice of intended court action
November 4th 2021 - Phoned Lesley Beaumont
Left a message, no response
November 5th 2021 - To Jon Munro - Parts of email…
I made it clear in multiple discussions and across multiple Welsh Gov departments that if I found support for business' that would directly affect my income, either by grant funding or by promotions I would 'see you in court'.
After investigation, I have noted many inconsistencies and links out to businesses that are similar in provision to Wales Outdoors and that are not accredited.
Whatever the reason my business will have been adversely affected and will have been disadvantaged in the marketplace.
I will accept the offer of a meeting if Visit Wales agrees to seriously look at the unnecessary accreditation regulations currently in place and have qualified guided walk businesses included in the Visit Wales websites listings without the need to jump through this extra hoop which we see as designed for adventure activity business' rather than those walking footpaths.
I will also require an agreement that I was misled, that my business has been unfairly dealt with and disadvantaged in the guided walks sector in Wales by Visit Wales. This is because for some time, despite being told that unaccredited businesses could not be promoted on Visit Wales, there have been similar businesses to Wales Outdoors having just that, Visit Wales promotion.
If this is acceptable I will refrain from instigating a small claim and I will forgo any claim against the Welsh Government in this matter in the future.
November 2021 Notice that I will be taking the Welsh Government to court https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/im-taking-the-welsh-government-to-court
December 2021 I wrote to Vaughan Gething
to seek a resolution prior to initiating a court action against the Welsh Government. Vaughan Gething chose to waste taxpayers money on legal services and so to accept the court action rather than to communicate, engage and resolve
https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/visit-wales-waste-your-cash
Claim submitted December 5th 2021. Plenty of time for engagement that never materialised.
https://walesoutdoors.co.uk/moans/im-taking-the-welsh-government-to-court/
The claim clearly stated that Wales Outdoors accepted but disagreed with the protocol that not being accredited meant that Wales Outdoors could not be included on the Visit Wales website BUT that there remained many others who offered the same or similar guided walks that were not accredited and that were still being platformed. I demanded that this stop and that there be a level playing field for my business, that if I could not be listed then similar businesses must be removed from the listings.
The Welsh Government's defence, signed by Jon Munro, took no account of the claim but simply made the assertion that as Wales Outdoors was not accredited Wales Outdoors could not be listed and had no case.
Response to Jon Munro’s defence
No, Wales Outdoors was not removed as part of an audit. Wales Outdoors was removed after I notified Visit Wales that I no longer held an AALA license and had not done so for some considerable amount of years. I then demanded engagement OR an audit following Visit Wales’s removal of Wales Outdoors and asked that if Wales Outdoors was to be removed then ALL OTHER unaccredited businesses be removed. This was, to my knowledge, at this time, in part, actioned. Of course, I did not know about the article links and accommodation linking that was not addressed and it is clear some disallowed businesses remained listed even at this time.
Disingenuous and an attempt to mislead this case in the extreme. The claim is not regarding lost business due to removal from Visit Wales as Jon Munro is very aware, having had a long telephone conversation with me on the matter and having, as he must, read my submissions and email to him of the 5/11/21. The claim is for loss of business due to other unaccredited businesses remaining on the Visit Wales website and so being promoted over and above Wales Outdoors. Further, the claim was made only after many warnings of such and the failure of Visit Wales to engage on the matter, either by talking to me OR by removing all errant businesses.
This issue is pertinent to the case. If robust protocols were in place then how would unaccredited businesses gain access to the system and if regular audits were taking place why would I consistently find unaccredited and similar businesses to Wales Outdoors listed on Visit Wales.
This is not my job. The thrust of Jon’s argument here is that it is for businesses to inform Visit Wales of Visit Wales’s own shortcomings.
Evidence, please. I have consistently asked for meetings, for meaningful engagement and indeed to act in good faith in mediation. I have seen none of this from the Welsh Government.
Once again disingenuous. It’s now clear Jon has not read my submissions or indeed understood my position. I run a business that is not allowed access to Visit Wales. Other similar businesses exist. Visit Wales promotes some of these other similar businesses, as I say, through incompetence or through design. This is a far from level playing of Visit Wales own making and as such, given I am disadvantaged greatly by this inequity of opportunity, I seek fair reparation.
This claim was brought as a last possible action following 25 years of unsatisfactory engagement with Visit Wales and with Visit Wales, including Jon Munro and Jonathon Jones the then head of Visit Wales, separately, on several past occasions, apologising for the unfair promotion of some over others. Since May 2020 I have clearly demonstrated that Visit Wales list businesses similar to Wales Outdoors and that are similarly not accredited. Visit Wales assured me in May 2020 that they would remove all such businesses. When revisiting in 2021 I found many businesses that ought not to be getting exposure through the Visit Wales website. I have clearly made demands that this not be the case, that if Wales Outdoors is disallowed a listing on Visit Wales then all other similar businesses be disallowed and that procedures within the Welsh Government ensure that unaccredited suppliers are not able to gain access to the website. I also gave ample warning that if measures were not taken then this would end up as a small claim. The Welsh Government did not act and as of May 2022, following months of opportunity to cleanse the website and in the knowledge that this matter was being seen by the court service, there were still multiple disallowed businesses gaining exposure and at the expense of my business, Wales Outdoors. As for time in the matter, I have expended hours and indeed this at Jon Munro’s request, as it is Jon who is suggesting that barred from access to the website business owners should spend their valuable time investigating and interrogating Visit Wales website in order to locate businesses that should not be there and then inform Visit Wales of this. This is patently ludicrous. Visit Wales should and in light of this case MUST ensure that those disallowed businesses not be listed in the first instance.
Finally, and as a point of interest to the court service but not relevant to the case, The Welsh Government in the guise of Visit Wales’ insistence upon accreditation of guided walk providers, are now, if they have removed all unaccredited providers as detailed in my submission, presiding over a website that offers almost no professional mountain guides to tourists. So, in the 10th anniversary year for the Wales Coast Path, for example, there is no in-person guiding available. This is the end result of the policy of non-engagement with the industry by Visit Wales staff. However, Visit Wales does encourage visitors to walk alone by promoting self-guided tours and by promoting guidebooks and routes to follow. I know what I think is the safer and more rewarding option for visitors.
My provision does not fall under the oversight of the Adventure Activity Licensing Authority. I am a fully qualified Mountain Leader of over thirty years. I walk with groups three or four times a week. I walk on footpaths open to members of the public. I offer safe access to the Welsh countryside. It is Visit Wales that are, by dint of their policies, now encouraging visitors to venture into the wild places unaccompanied.
EXAMPLE OF APPALLING JOURNALISM from just one Visit Wales magazine article and how articles are used to share some businesses that are not accredited..
https://www.visitwales.com/destinations/mid-wales/powys/insiders-guide-hay-wye
London based journalist - outrageous the Welsh Gov still outsource out of Wales…
Canoe hire companies linked to that appear unaccredited but also offer guiding services
Cycling companies linked to who are definitely not accredited and offer mountain bike guiding services.
Photo of a cyclist on top of Hay Bluff. There is no bridleway there and this is illegal.
Photo of wild camping in a camper van in a field in an area known for illegal wild camper van nuisance camping
Photo of mountain boarder wearing no safety gear (arm pads, knee pads, helmet!)
I was assured that this appalling article would be removed, by Jon Munro, and that all articles would be looked at. It is still live on the Visit Wales website.
Most providers, as of 15th June, set to ‘Awaiting Grading’ including a few that I presume were not accredited. So, what if I book NOW and have an accident and then a week later the provider is found to be not up to standard and is not accredited? Who is liable?
It seems strange that the Technical Advisors business is also ‘Awaiting grading’…
July 2022 - email to Jon Munro
Hi Jon, that's a shame.
I will welcome a meeting on Tuesday but ask you to note that I have been free much of the time since our day in court and I do feel that had Visit Wales wanted to resolve these issues prior to me leaving the UK for the summer time could have ben made available. I can come to you or any Cardiff location. I need to be leaving any meeting at 4.30pm.
I feel that I could have attended yesterday and that would have seen, perhaps, an end to things. I guess you all wanted to chat about my concerns and so work on responses together and in advance. I do understand that approach but it is not one that gives me hope of things moving forward.
There is no need here to defend a position. I have clearly demonstrated, and over the course of many years, that the actions of Visit Wales are indefensible. What is needed is a sincere apology and immediate action to ensure that the failures and seemingly sloppy practices of the past will never be repeated in the future.
This means committing to a robust framework of vetting, to an audit of all live content and the removal of inappropriate content and links and to protocols and checks for the commissioning of new content.
I think there needs to be a discussion about the accreditation rules as they are not fit for purpose regarding guided walks. This is clear as there are very few guided walk providers on the site when once there were very many.
I never again want to see unaccredited businesses similar to mine on the Visit Wales website, while the accreditation rules exist. This includes those unaccredited businesses being linked to from articles. I'd like to see a commitment to this and in good time, over the next couple of weeks perhaps. I also feel that there needs to be some form of penalty for failure to perform in this area as this has been an ongoing concern of mine for 20 years and to date issues such as this have never been adequately addressed.
July 2022 meeting with Jon Munro and Craig Goodwin - Outcomes from Jon Munro
Tighten up checks that are made before a business is added to the grading database and the grading file that is uploaded to the product database
Outline tighter requirements around the checking of new businesses with our database partner – New Vision Group / Simpleview.
A monthly second check of those ‘new’ businesses added to the database by our internal team.
Add report problem with a listing button
Better online guidance supported by a specific briefing from us to the editorial team
All graded products to be linked to via their product listing – including all activity products.
Ongoing identification of where this is not the case. We are running a link report now we can use to support this.
Providing the editorial team with a monthly list of businesses that come off the system so they can check and update content.
We’ll also see if there is a way we can better engage with this part of the sector
None of these points have either been actioned or addressed in any way
September 2022 meeting with Heledd Owen and Jon Munro
Hi Jon, just touching base after our meeting.
It was good to meet with you again. I must say I found the meeting to be positive but came away feeling that Heledd wasn't really in the business of engaging with me but more wanting to draw a line under my pressuring Visit Wales to change. Her comment towards the end of the meeting, being very much her only comment, something along the lines of 'are you satisfied we have done enough' I think was an attempt to draw that line.
I would like to continue to pursue engagement with VisitWales and I will in due course, maybe six months or so, look again at the listings and assess how well they now conform to my aim of creating a level playing field for all.
I would also like to pursue engagement regarding having those businesses that fall outside of the legislation, so not working with under 18's but who are qualified and insured (two boxes I think that could be used to tick when allowing providers onto the platform) allowed onto Visit Wales.
I think a simple solution could be this for activity providers who work outside of the scope of the AALS license:
Activity providers wishing to appear on the Visit Wales website without going through the Visit Wales in-house accreditation process must assert they only work outside of the scope of adventure activity licensing and that they must demonstrate for ALL leaders the following:
An assessed and passed NGB Award (national governing body award) for each activity that they deliver
Insurance that covers either the business or each individual leader
A minimum of four-star feedback, overall, across a minimum of 50 reviews on a minimum of two uncurated and live review locations such as Airbnb, Tripadvisor and google.
I believe there ought to be no argument with this as a template for allowing small businesses and one-man bands such as mine and the many others that were removed from Visit Wales back onto the platform and so going a long way to making the platform useful for visitors seeking adventures and accommodation providers seeking those extensions to stays.
By the way, for your information, my reviews are ecstatic, with clients stating over and over again that it was their day with me that was the highlight of their time in Wales and that it is this that will see them recommend Wales to their friends and indeed return themselves.
I'll say it again, it's shameful that such a business as mine is banned from Visit Wales.
Jon Munro said he would again chase up better engagement with the guiding providers…
October 2022 to Jon Munro
Please can you explain how a Welsh business is allowed on a Britain wide platform that is delivered by the UK Government BUT not allowed onto the smaller Welsh Gov platform, Visit Wales.
Jon Munro said Thanks for the note below and I do understand where you are coming from.
What I am trying to do is pull the relevant people into a meeting to discuss how we move forward. I will try and get something in the diary in early December. (This has never materialised AL)
November 2022 Wales Outdoors is listed on Visit Britain
but remains banned from Visit Wales https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/visit-wales-crazytown
December 2022 from Jon Munro Apologies for the radio silence. Here’s a quick update.
I have a meeting in the diary with all concerned. I am also trying to instigate a meeting with guided walking operators to have an open discussion around policy moving forwards.
December 2022 To Stephen Doughty MP, Paul Davies MS, Vaughan Gething MS and Jon Munro
No guided walk businesses are listed on Visit Wales. I asked for assistance with this and offered a protocol to ensure qualified guides could gain access to the platform - https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/will-politicians-assist-me Vaughan Gething’s office responded without reading the email. https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/pathetic-response-from-welsh-gov
January 2023 from Wales Outdoors - request for updates.
April 2023 Jon Munro said he was still working at engagement
with guides in Wales and that I could get a level 6 qualification, that’s a degree, in health and safety and self certify…
https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/ive-hit-the-visit-wales-brick-wall
April 2023 Jon Munro said complete a New Attraction form
to be listed on Visit Wales, which I did and which would not allow me to tick the box ‘guided walks’.
I queried this and Jon responded with the usual ‘I hear you! I am on the case and trying to sort out a few systems issues now with the team concerned. I’ll come back shortly and I know exactly where you are coming from on this, regards, Jon.
June 2023 - follow up email asking Jon Munro to respond
June 2023 Wales Outdoors becomes the face of the National Lotteries Days Out campaign for Wales, promoted by Visit Britain. Visit Wales still won’t list Wales Outdoors and cannot, it seems, see the nonsense in this.
https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/visitbritain-are-so-much-better-than
August 2023 email to Jon Munro
With Wales Outdoors going from strength to strength and delivering up to 6 walks each and every week this summer, consistently with 5 star feedback, and having received awards, been strongly featured in the National Lotteries Days Out Campaign, is number 1 in the things to do on Tripadvisor for the Brecon Beacons and also number 1 for Cardiff it seems so very shortsighted of VisitWales to have not allowed Wales Outdoors access to the correct listing options on the Visit Wales platform.
You do realise that I am able to tick fishing, motorsports, target activity, wildlife watching, airsports and self-led walking?
Did you know that fishing is the most dangerous sport in the UK, that motorsports are VERY dangerous, that target activity includes guns, axes and bows, that wildlife watching is guided walking to the watch location, that airsports include ballooning/gliding etc and that self-led walking is more dangerous than walking with a knowledgable and qualified guide?
Shall I tick all of those boxes on your form?
Please remove this page from VisitWales as I feel sure that all of the walk providers delivering walks at next year's festival will not have been through the process of accreditation - https://www.visitwales.com/event/walks-or-outdoor-activity/crickhowell-walking-festival-crug-hywel-crickhowell-2164630
Please also remove Cardiff on Foot and Cardiff Tours and Griffin Guiding and Good Day Out and TT Tours and Sarahs Wales who are all not accredited but advertise guiding.
Please remove the link and mention of Ramblers Cymru https://www.visitwales.com/things-do/adventure-and-activities/walking/ramblers-cymru-wales-top-autumnal-walks
The above has been highlighted during a brief look at one search term on VisitWales. If you'd like me to do a deep dive then I'm happy to do that.
August 2023 Glyn Roberts response to my email to Jon Munro
My notes in brackets - In response to your queries:
Our assurance scheme is for businesses that specifically provide ‘guided’ adventure activities as defined by the Wales Adventure Tourism Organisation (WATO). The WATO definition: “Adventure is where the focus is on engaging with the natural environment in a physically challenging manner where skill and an element of risk are central to the experience and the participant seeks to appreciate the aesthetic qualities of the natural environment in a peaceful manner.” Good practice would suggest having a related accreditation/assurance for businesses that fall outside of this definition since this would provide additional reassurances to the customer.
https://www.visitwales.com/event/walks-or-outdoor-activity/crickhowell-walking-festival-crug-hywel-crickhowell-2164630 This listing has now been unpublished. (Please click on the link, this listing is still live AL)
Assurance will depend on where the guided walks are taking place. If the guided walk is within 30 minutes of the vehicle or equivalent (I’ve asked for clarification on this but Visit Wales have not responded AL) then there is no need to be assured. The walk could be for longer than 1 hour as long as you are within the 30 minute reach of the vehicle. Assurance is in place to provide safety assurances and those offering guided walks will need to ensure that they consider the environment and terrain they are operating in, even if within a 30 minute parameter as some relatively accessible locations still provide challenging environments e.g. sections of the coast path, waterfall country etc. Where guided walks extend beyond 30 minutes of the vehicle or equivalent (what does this mean? AL), are coastal (excluding urban areas), lowland, moorland, hill or mountain (as defined by Mountain Training United Kingdom & Ireland) the provider will be required to be accredited/assured if they wish to be listed on visitwales.com.
We have reviewed these entries and the listing for Good Day Out has now been unpublished. Based on the above explanation, Cardiff on Foot, Cardiff Tours, Griffin Guiding, Sarah’s Wales do not, in our opinion, require accreditation. We are seeking clarification from TT Tours on what they provide. (See further for a more complete list with evidence of the businesses hosted by Visit Wales that fall foul of their own rules but that they continue to host AL)
The Rambler’s Cymru article is just a list of autumnal walking routes selected by Ramblers Cymru staff and see no reason to remove the link. (Linking to a site that delivers mountain walks but is an unaccredited business is against Visit Wales own rules - this demonstrates that Visit Wales simply do not understand how to implement their own rules AL)
August 2023 My response to Glyn Roberts
All of these issues, questions and requests to delete businesses (I do not want that, I want engagement with the industry) remain unresponded to and not actioned 3/10/23 AL
It’s happened again, this time Glyn Roberts has fled the building for the summer. Now Jon Munro and Glyn Roberts are not available to respond. Please can another member of staff look into this and answer my questions in full.
OK, so I'll tick all of the boxes on the form in that case?
You say 'Adventure is where the focus is on engaging with the natural environment in a physically challenging manner where skill and an element of risk are central to the experience' Are you stating walking on a public footpath falls into this category? Please clarify whether walking on a public footpath in lowland countryside is adventurous and risky or not?
Please clarify the mechanism that came to the conclusion that 30 minutes from the vehicle rule ought to be a thing. Please provide me with the written documentation that spells this out and the dates that this was implemented.
You say 'Based on the above explanation, Cardiff on Foot, Cardiff Tours, Griffin Guiding, Sarah’s Wales do not, in our opinion, require accreditation.' Please provide evidence that you know that these tours travel no further than '30 minutes from the vehicle'. I know that some of these will take place within a city but you are insisting upon proximity to the vehicle. Further, as an example, my waterfalls walk is never more than 30 minutes from a road and Mountain Training only delivers guided walks of this nature. Clarify road or vehicle and please explain why vehicle rather than road.
You may see no reason to remove the Ramblers but I was assured at a meeting over a year ago that no such mentions or links to unaccredited businesses would be allowed within copy. Once again remove mention and link to the Ramblers. Alternatively, I'll write an article for you, with lovely images, describing some fine walks, and you can link to me, right?
August 2023 To date these businesses are still on the Visit Wales website unaccredited, and Wales Outdoors remains ‘banned’. I followed up with a series of emails detailing the businesses I easily found that guide in Wales, are not accredited by Visit Wales and yet are still on their website and I asked for either their removal or for Visit Wales to allow Wales Outdoors on the website:
https://www.visitwales.com/attraction/sightseeing-tour/tourswalescom-2169325
As I prove below your systems are not working and despite Heledd and Jon promising that there would be a level playing field, there is not. This is disappointing to say the least.
Foraging walks of up to a full day along the coast. please remove.
Most of the walk is flat and through country and wooded lanes. We also spend approximately 30 minutes on a woodland track which can be overgrown in peak-Summer when growth is fastest. There will be a few metres of muddy section for most of the year unless it has been very dry. Wear comfy practical footwear that you don’t mind getting a bit muddy (most of the mud can usually be avoided if you are agile). Being Wales, there are several hills, two of which are quite steep. A reasonable / average level of fitness is needed to complete the walk.
This is clearly a half day walk of some distance and over the same type of terrain that I walk. Remove this business please.
Are you saying that walking on public footpaths is now considered an Adventure Activity?
https://www.visitwales.com/event/walks-or-outdoor-activity/crickhowell-walking-festival-crug-hywel-crickhowell-2164630 No, it has not been unpublished. Please remove.
Griffin Guidings Instagram - clearly advertising rural walks in Wales https://www.instagram.com/griffinguiding/
Sarah's Wales description clearly indicates that she will guide along the coast and in the hills. Please stop wasting my time in these matters and do some proper investigations yourself and administer your stupid rules across the board!
Remove the link out and mention of the Ramblers OR allow me to write an article and have a link out to my business please.
Remove the festivals please - all uncredited guides
Guided donkey walks accessing some beautiful local footpaths with spectacular views over the Twymyn Valley and beyond to Cadair Idris and Aran Fawddwy. Due to terrain not suitable for mobility impaired people.
Prices start at £70 for approx. 2.5 trek
There are a number of day and half day tours available, based on a variety of themes that can be designed to suite you, i.e. Castles, St. David’s Cathedral, Gardens and Great Houses, Gower, Preseli Hills, Crafts, Coastal views, Vintage, shabby chic, antiques and collectibles.
Clearly offering hill walking, please remove.
a 1.5 hour walk over an upland common - please remove.
You think that encouraging drinking on a guided hike is sensible, or indeed whilst biking? Remove.
Whether you want a guide for an hour, a day or a week, Turnstone Tours can meet your needs.
Obviously offering guided walks, please remove.
Images are of rocky hiking locations and they offer the three peaks challenge. Please remove.
https://www.visitwales.com/search?search=guided%20walk&f%5B0%5D=sector%3A5001
Guided Tours of Wales - Qualified Green Badge Tourist Guide.
Offering guided sightseeing coach and walking tours of South Wales, Brecon Beacons, Wye Valley, the Cambrain Mountains and Mid Wales.
Please remove
Tours Wales - Fully guided walking, sightseeing and adventure activity tours of Wales. Day trips and multi day tours are available, run by fully qualified and accredited Green Badge tour guides and outdoor professionals.
Please remove.
Guide North Wales
Snowdon: the highest mountain South of the Scottish Highlands.
Beddgelert: hear about the legend of the faithful hunting hound.
Industrial Heritage: see the remains of the giant slate quarries and walk in the footsteps of the quarrymen
Betws y Coed: visit the craft shops and tea rooms in this renowned alpine village
Land of water: stroll by a placid lake, see tumbling streams and dramatic waterfalls
Hidden gems: ancient churches, abandoned mines, charming woods and forgotten glades
Please remove
TTTours
I provide a range of tourist guiding services - delivering your existing itineraries or creating tailored tours for the independent or group traveller
Please remove.
Please answer why a motorcycle guide can be listed but a guide who walks footpaths cannot.
Remove this business - https://www.visitwales.com/attraction/sightseeing-tour/south-wales-personal-tours-1887586 - It delivers waterfalls walks and coastal walks
Remove this business please - https://www.visitwales.com/attraction/sightseeing-tour/cardiff-wales-guided-tours-1887619 - It delivers a coastal walk from Solva to St Davids
Remove this business please, for the obvious to me but not it seems to you reasons - https://www.visitwales.com/attraction/sightseeing-tour/luxury-north-wales-tours-2169177
So bored of this, please remove - https://www.visitwales.com/attraction/sightseeing-tour/luxury-north-wales-tours-2169177
Fully guided tours of a days length of the Gower peninsula - Remove as they offer adventure activities but are not accredited. Indeed, please go through all attractions and remove all that list guided walks or adventure activities but who are not accredited. You know you promised to do that. So, please do that… https://www.visitwales.com/attraction/sightseeing-tour/wales-beckons-ltd-2172330
August 2023 Email email sent to Heledd Owen, Jon Munro and Glyn Roberts demanding action on the above examples.
August 2023 I submitted an FOI request in for my digital data
stored by the Welsh Government. They aim to respond within 20 days. They have extended the deadline to 20th November 2023. That’s a total of three months…
September 2023 email sent to Heledd Owen, Jon Munro Dawn Bowden
I'm not seeing my simple questions being answered or the removal of unaccredited tour companies and guided walk providers from the Visit Wales platform. Alternatively I am not seeing the welcoming of my guiding business onto the platform. My MP Kevin Brennan is today writing to Dawn Bowden asking for answers and explanations.
You know I will be happy enough to take this to court and I truly cannot understand Visit Wales' inaction on this matter, given that I have done most of the legwork.
I, therefore, suggest that you remove all guided walk providers masquerading as attractions and all other links out to similar, using whatever designation, not just those that I have highlighted, but please do some research too, you will find more, OR, as stated before, allow Wales Outdoors access to the Visit Wales platform as a guided walk provider.
It is clear that your department are not taking this matter seriously and indeed have NEVER taken these matters seriously. It's been around 25 years of this nonsense of never playing fairly and wilfully maintaining an unlevel playing field! I expected more, foolishly, and I warned you that at some stage I would look into this again.
I welcome a meeting with senior staff but in the first instance I want to see movement, so removal of unaccredited providers or Wales Outdoors being given access to the platform.
Please do not allow a full response to all of my communications during August to take more than a few days. My patience with this matter has ended.
Kind Regards,
Andy Lamb.
September 2023 follow up email sent demanding action
September 2023 I gave notice of a meeting requested for 11th September dated 6th September. I received no response indicating that a member of staff would or would not attend
September 2023 details of my grievances sent to all ministers and my MP with a timeline of events https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/visit-wales-promises-mean-f-all
September 2023 read what ChatGPT thinks of Visit Wales
https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/calling-all-tourism-businesses-andy
September 2023 recording of conversation at the Welsh Government
offices that I attended, to meet with Visit Wales staff, but they were all unavailable…
https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/welsh-government-staff-are-cowards
September 2023 email to Vaughan Gething MS seeking a resolution to Wales Outdoors legitimate grievance, responded to with a refusal to meet https://walesoutdoors.substack.com/p/email-to-vaughan-gething-re-visit
September 2023 letter from Kevin Brennan MP to Dawn Bowden MS
I am writing on behalf of my constituent Mr Lamb, who has written to me to express his concern with the policies of Visit Wales in regard to the promotion of guided walk providers on their platform. Mr Lamb is the owner Wales Outdoors, an adventure tour company.
He has stated that his company Wales Outdoors is not promoted on the Visit Wales website due to his choice to not to acquire further accreditation. However he has “noted many businesses that are not accredited back on Visit Wales, by various means, and [that] this places Wales Outdoors once again at a market disadvantage”.
He has informed me that this is an issue he has previously raised with Visit Wales, leading a meeting with Heledd Owen, Deputy Director of Marketing at Visit Wales. He has stated that during this meeting Visit Wales “made firm promises of a change in behaviour … and that the site would be closely monitored with only accredited businesses being allowed onto the platform.”
However, Mr Lamb has expressed concern that unaccredited businesses are being allowed onto the platform.
Mr Lamb has further stated his concern with Visit Wales’ policy regarding guides remaining no more than 30 minutes from the guides vehicle. He has stated that:
“I can descend from the summit of Pen y Fan in less than thirty minutes, my waterfalls walk is never more than 30 minutes from a road. I have asked for clarification on the ‘thirty minutes from the vehicle’ rule, asking when and by whom was this imposed. But I have also pointed out that I set up a partner business that only delivers low level walks that have good and quick access to public highways and that this business has been disallowed from ticking the ‘guided walking’ box. This in the face of other similar businesses being allowed onto the Visit Wales platform.”
Additionally, Mr. Lamb has told me that “Wales Outdoors delivers walks that any adult would be deemed fit to chose to undertake on their own or with their family. But Visit Wales will not list Wales Outdoors. However, Wales Outdoors can be listed for target shooting, archery, yoga, fishing, motorsports, golf, ‘other activities’, wildlife watching, airsports (flying, ballooning paragliding), self led walking and walking experiences (such as walking with a sheep).”
Mr Lamb has stated that he would like to see “either the removal of all rules regarding the disbarment for unaccredited but professionally qualified guided walks providers from Visit Wales platform OR the permanent removal of all businesses that offer an in person service where that service could possibly lead to the guide or tutor along with client being more than 30 minutes from the guides vehicle.”
I would appreciate if you could address the concerns expressed by my constituent. I look forward to your reply.
Yours sincerely Kevin Brennan MP Member of Parliament for Cardiff West
September 2023 Dawn Bowden did not respond to Kevin Brennan but the Welsh Government legal team did:
Thank you for your letter of 5 September, on behalf of your constituent Andrew Lamb of Wales Outdoors.
The Welsh Government is committed to creating a more prosperous, equal and greener nation, and the role of Visit Wales is to support destination planning, management and marketing across the tourism sector. Outdoor activities form a core part of Wales’ product offer. We engage with this sector to support its development and we promote a full range of outdoor activities on visitwales.com and feature them in our content and campaigns.
As part of that we administer the Adventure Activity Assurance Scheme, which is a voluntary, non-statutory scheme that has been developed in partnership with the Wales Adventure Tourism Organisation (WATO). Recognition through this scheme is required for all adventure activity businesses that wish to be listed on VisitWales.com. It aims to provide residents and visitors with a quick and easy way to select adventure and outdoor recreation activity providers and operators based on their ability to deliver safe and effective industry practice.
We are not aware that other outdoor activity providers have raised any issues around this approach, but we are nevertheless taking Mr Lamb’s concerns very seriously and we will look again at our processes to ensure they are fit-for-purpose and report back on the results to Mr Lamb when this process is concluded.
Yours sincerely, Dawn Bowden AS/MS Dirprwy Weinidog y Celfyd
The team has not answered any questions raised by Kevin Brennan MPand neither have they engaged with me or answered any questions I have raised with them.
September 2023 Telegram exchange with Jon Munro
Andy Lamb, [26 Sep 2023 at 06:22:21]:
What's going on Jon? Why the burying of heads in sand and hiding from a single tourism provider? You know that I am right in my assertions, that many businesses are platformed on Visit Wales and that meeting with me could have resolved this grievance. Not communicating is a bad look. My demands remain. Platform me or remove those businesses that fall outside of your own, idiotic rules, rules that I've asked clarification on and that to date Visit Wales have not had the courtesy to respond to. Apologies for years of obfuscation and disadvantaging my and others businesses also required as well as indication of what Visit Wales intend to do to make amends.
Jon Munro, [26 Sep 2023 at 20:10:01]:
Hi Andy, apologies for not coming back to you personally and I do understand your frustration. The nature of government is that once communication is made to a Minister or there is an FOI request it is dealt with via official channels and through that team. I am under the impression they have come back to you? Suffice to say I know the team are working though the list of issues you have provided and will take this into account around how they move forward. (These issues have been directly flagged since May 2020 and despite the raft of communications no action by the Welsh Government has taken place AL) Hope you are getting out in the hills plenty, regards, Jon
It appears that because I submitted an FOI request the Welsh Government have gone all legal and will now not communicate on any level, heads in sand and circling the wagons appears to be their modus operandi.
September 2023 email and form submitted requesting the setting up of Wales Outdoors as an attraction
October 2023 Wales Outdoors denied a listing on Visit Wales. No explanation given.
