The Points Andy Raises Are Almost Always Valid Ones
My Data Held By The Welsh Government revealed in a recent FOI - Interesting stuff indeed...
On August 21st 2023 I asked for an emergency meeting with Visit Wales management to discuss why they continue to list businesses that fall outside of their criteria for listing and why my countryside, not mountain, guided walking business could not list guided walks as a Visit Wales website search option. Today, 6th November, I have that meeting scheduled. This has been a mammoth task, scheduling this meeting, and has involved my MP, the Minister responsible and constant and direct pressure on Visit Wales social media, management and the Visit Wales Roadshows. This is government in action… What follows are extracts from my FOI request for data relating to Andrew Lamb or Wales Outdoors.
Please also note that currently, my new business, Wales Guided Tours, is being treated by onboarding staff exceptionally, that is they will not list it and have flagged it, despite it 100% conforming to their listing criteria, because it is an Andy Lamb business. Once again, this is government in action…
Overview
Since March 2020 I have been in discussions with Visit Wales. Only on August 19th 2023 was I informed by Visit Wales that unaccredited by Visit Wales providers of guided walks must take place no more than 30 minutes from the guide’s vehicle. For me, this changes everything and earlier communication of this protocol could have resulted in a great deal of time wasted by all parties, being avoided. I asked for clarification of why the 30 minute rule and I only received, pompously from Paul Donavon of WATO, ‘because that is what we discussed’.
This insistence of implementing WATO decreed rules, not UK law but a Wales specific overreach, and lack of communication with the providers of guided walks has led to there being NO guided walks or walking festivals available on the Visit Wales site, today, in the year of Wales by Trails and in 2022, or in the year of the 10th anniversary of the Wales Coast Path. This has now spilled over into the guided tour business and guides who mostly deliver tours to attractions are being deleted because they wander, on occasion, more than thirty minutes from the vehicle. Very soon the only guiding services that will be listed on the Visit Wales site will be adventure activity providers, who in the main, cannot and do not want to take bookings from tourists. Oh, plus driven to attraction tours and guided city tours.
My FOI request for my data has been completed and I now have access to some communications, some are redacted, within the Welsh Government concerning myself and Wales Outdoors. It makes for interesting reading and goes some way to explaining the closed shop that is Visit Wales. I say this as they do not communicate honestly. I believe they see any complaint as an ‘Us and Them’ thing.
I’ve highlighted key phrases from over 50 pages of A4 documents and have made a time line. The most important I have made bold. Notes added are in italics.
From 2020 to August 2023 - Regarding there being NO guided walk providers on Visit Wales and Visit Wales listing some unaccredited (by them) providers but refusing to list others.
June 2020 - Back ground in what we did in light of Mr Lamb’s complaint - All Redacted…
June 2020 - Phone call stating that the listings will be reviewed and unaccredited providers will be removed. At tis time 10 providers were removed from the Visit Wales website.
August 2021 - At this time Visit Wales were in discussion with the Blue Badge Guides, WOTGA, who were complaining of this matter. At no point did they inform me of this and they misled the Minister responsible on this matter.
November 2021 - Given his character, nature and tone - I admit I can be difficult but that difficulty is only in response to poorly thought through and implemented protocols. I re-iterate, since 2006 all I have ever wanted is a level playing field
Sepember 2022 - Agreed action points, none of which appear implemented or if implemented not working:
Regarding the product database
Tighten up checks that are made before a business is added to the grading database and the grading file that is uploaded to the product database
Outline tighter requirements around the checking of new businesses with our database partner – New Vision Group / Simpleview.
A monthly second check of those ‘new’ businesses added to the database by our internal team.
What we can’t do is check all the product descriptions for individual businesses – but we discussed adding a ‘report problem’ button or link.
The other thing we will also have to live with is the 2 week lag in the update of the grading file and that is uploaded to the product database database.
It was also agreed that there would be engagement with all concerned in delivery of guided walks to seek a way forward.
Regarding article content
Better online guidance supported by a specific briefing from us to the editorial team
All graded products to be linked to via their product listing – including all activity products.
Ongoing identification of where this is not the case. We are running a link report now we can use to support this.
Providing the editorial team with a monthly list of businesses that come off the system so they can check and update content.
December 2022 - his point on Visit Britain and TXGB feels like a fair point too.
January 2023 - The points Andy raises are almost always valid ones
January 2023 - I know he has a particular manner but we are making progress and the changes we are putting in place (because of chatting to Andy) are having a wider positive outcome.
April 2023 I like Andy. He makes the world a colourful place and challenges our point of view. Sometimes that is not a bad thing.
April 2023 - Mid Wales Tourism - ‘Show Me Wales’ asked whether they could add me to their website as I was feeding in via TXGB. I’m not on Show me Wales so I understand Visit Wales said no. This is clearly Visit Wales damaging my business. Today, 6/11/23, I sent this to Show me Wales: Please can you let me know why I am not listed on Show me Wales? I have a TXGB feed of my products. I note you were in discussion regarding my listing with Visit Wales in April 2023. If you won't list me then I would ask that you remove: Walking the Brecon Beacons, Dyfi Walking Tours, Talgarth, Crickhowell and Llanwrtyd Wells Walking Festivals as none of these have accreditation with Visit Wales. However, I'd like to be listed with you, as a fully qualified mountain leader of over thirty years, as a blue Badge Guide in training (qualified March 2024) and with some great vehicle based guided tours about to be listed with TXGB and available for live booking.
June 2023 - but I don’t think anyone has gone back to him and I really think someone should
June 2023 - he appears positive at the moment. He gets great reviews and I know a bunch of people who’ve been on walks with him and love him. Interesting!
June 2023 - he is entitled to his point of view!
July 2023 - he is live on Visit Wales, do we need to remove it?
July 2023 - the decision should come from the grading team, they will need to communicate with Mr Lamb why it was removed - I was never informed!
July 2023 - But the fact no-one is going back to him about his accreditation status is honestly a shambles
August 2023 - does anyone in grading have the capacity to respond to Andy even if it is a holding message?
The FOI returns ended at the beginning of August. Since then I have provided Visit Wales with over 25 examples of businesses that, in line with their protocols, should not be listed and indeed they have removed many. These are legitimate tourism businesses. What follows is a list (not exhaustive) of those that I have found today and that should be removed in line with Visit Wales criteria, including links out from copy and oddities. I apologise to those businesses highlighted but what can one do? As the Visit Wales boss, Jason Thomas, says, the rules are the rules… If highlighted here, please lets together apply pressure to Visit Wales and let’s see change.
Businesses Visit Wales must remove:
Tours of Wales - no link to website but still on Visit Wales… from his website he’s unlinked from Instagram where he is clearly leading to the summit of Pen y Fan
Luxury North Wales Tours - looks like it no longer exists. No website and inactive google listing.
North Wales Adventure - offer national three peaks
Cambrian Safari Tours - what happens if they roll their vehicle when off-roading? A serious question as they are then in a mechanical accident situation on the hill. Far worse than any minor injury that would be sustained on a public footpath. I think off roading and motorcycle tours are far more dangerous than a guided walk to a waterfall. but Visit Wales think differently it seems as these activities need no accreditation.
Wales beckons Ltd - offers adventure activities
Snowdonia Safaris - Multi-Activity Provider in, Snowdonia
North Pembrokeshire Tours - link to website not working likely a dead business, but delivers quarry walk of more than 30 minutes from guides vehicle.
Beacons Discovery Tours - no website so no knowing what they actually offer
Janet Redler Travel - offers guided walking tours
Cambrian Routes - Image of clients high up in the mountains, needs investigating
Adventure Tours UK - guided mountain walking
Dragon Tours - offers walking and climbing and mountain biking in its private tours and has removed it’s social media, likely to hide it’s photos of adventure activities…
Celtic Rainforest Experience - upland guided walks and rope work…
Peter Sommer Travels - Walking Tours
Welsh Overland Safari - offers hill walking to Iron Age forts and wild swimming. One hill fort walk is over upland common and is 40 minutes from the guide’s vehicle
Welsh Wild Life Breaks - offers guided walking holidays
Fishing @ Fishing and Foraging Wales - A good example of a foraging tour that most certainly takes place more than 30 minutes from the guide’s vehicle, as they all will do.
Alpaca My Boots - treks of 2.5 hours over upland common terrain
I could keep on going… But that is Vist Wales job, isn’t it.
Then there are the campsites and accommodation providers…
I think most will have a things to do page on their website. Here is just one. I think Visit Wales need to do what was agreed with Jon Munro in 2022 and that is remove all accommodation that links out to activity providers unless they can prove that Visit Wales accredits the provision.
Pencelli Castle Caravan Park - They link out to walking festivals that Visit Wales has removed and to many providers of activities including some that are not accredited.
Inconsistencies
Here is one example where I suspect the provider was accredited for wild swimming but that they now also offer guided walking.
Wild Swim Wales are listed as swimming but also stated that they offer guided walks. Do they have a qualification for walking and hiking?
Copy
Visit Wales have many magazine articles that link out to guides and providers that are unaccredited. It was agreed in 2022 that this would be rectified. Indeed, some of these pages were flagged and staff at Visit Wales were made aware of them. They are still live on the Visit Wales website. here are three examples, the worst being the final page with three photos that are actually portraying activities that are either illegal or dangerous.
Example - https://www.visitwales.com/info/history-heritage-and-traditions/welsh-heritage-sightseeing-tours links to Phil Coates for the Chartists Cave. This is a walk of 35 minutes for a fit and competent hill walker and is over mountain terrain.
https://www.visitwales.com/things-do/adventure-and-activities/walking/ramblers-cymru-wales-top-autumnal-walks links out to the Ramblers who offer unaccredited guided walks
https://www.visitwales.com/destinations/mid-wales/powys/insiders-guide-hay-wye We discussed this in 2022 and it was agreed this would be removed. God awful copy and linking out to an unaccredited provider and photos that show dangerous and illegal activity.
A level playing field
I reiterate I do not want these businesses removed. I want engagement and acceptance of UK law, not the implementation of the ‘because that’s what we discussed, vested interest laden advice to the Welsh Government from WATO.
But, if those are the rules then I want the rules to be implemented as without that there is no standard and there is no level playing field. What you have is on the hoof decision making and preferred businesses gaining promotion over and above others.
From 2013 - The Valleys Campaign
These are earlier discussions regarding the Valleys campaign, for which there was a positive result, of sorts. Although the way that staff in the Welsh Government view complainants, even with valid points that they take on board, is clear…
The Valleys campaign - A website and a ‘closed’ app that named the fifty best attractions in the Valleys. This app could not be updated and it listed one activity provider over an above all others, something we’ve seen many times before.
2012 - There are issues with this provider
2012 - He’s posted on his blog about a campaign we funded - Wales in Style - and it’s proving contentious
2013 - Andy Lamb is querying another issue with us so it is vital that he’s taken off our websites
2013 - There is an issue we need to get to the bottom, can I agree a meeting with Mr Lamb
2013 - Mr Lamb is trying to find out who is responsible so it would be beneficial to resolve ourselves before he starts making more fuss and involving politicians
2013 - the more info we provide the more queries will come back
Result - My campaigning resulted in the removal of activity provider preferences and the promotions for individual activity providers. You see, it’s worth complaining although it likely damages relationships with those who hold the power in tourism in Wales. But ethically it is the right thing to do.
