Dawn Bowden AM Lied To My MP, Kevin Brennan

And WATGO -v- WATO The fight goes on to include guides and guided walk providers on the Visit Wales website...

On Thursday 21st November I will be meeting with management at Visit Wales. Am I hopeful of a resolution of our ongoing disagreements and my assertion of malfeasance? Well, not really.

Wales Official Tourist Guides Association Gave Up Trying To Have Visit Wales See Sense.

WATGO, the organisation the represents fully qualified Blue Badge Guide holders, decided to give up with their representations to have Visit Wales look again at the impossible WATO guidance which has led to not one guided walk or tour guide being available on the Visit Wales website, in the year of Wales by Trails… And they represent 70 guides in Wales. I’m just one man.

Visit Wales Had The Minister Lie To My MP

At no point over the past three and a half years have Visit Wales declared that there were others questioning their accreditation scheme, with very similar complaints being made as those that I have been promoting. Indeed, Visit Wales advised Dawn Bowden AM, the minister responsible, to respond to my MP, Kevin Brennan, informing him that I stood alone in my complaints. This prompted an FOI request which revealed some truth in that matter, I was not alone but one of at least 74 complainants!

There Are No Guides Delivering Walks In The Countryside On The Visit Wales Website

Currently, not only is Visit Wales still displaying businesses and links out to businesses from magazine copy that contravenes their own patently absurd protocols but more importantly the Visit Wales website returns just four guided walk providers for Wales, none of whom display any availability, all of whom require a small group booking, so four people or more, and one whose website is not available. This means there are NO guided walk providers available on the Visit Wales website suitable for the tourist to book! This is a shameful state of affairs and I’ve been singing that song to Visit Wales staff and all who would listen for quite some time now, for at least three and a half years. I’ll be urging a rethink of Visit Wales protocols at the meeting on the 21st November.

Deleting Providers From The Visit Wales Website

I was also told on multiple occasions that in May 2020 Visit Wales removed all unacredited guides and that they did the same in 2021, 2022 and 2023. My second FOI request reveals this also to not be the case. I asked for a list of all deleted businesses from the platform and it is very interesting indeed. Hardly any guides or guided walk providers but more a selection of Wales’ finest, such as Cardiff Castle and Abergavenny Museum. Very odd indeed and contrary in the extreme to communications I’ve had from the Visit Wales team.

Extracts From The FOI Detailing Discussions Digitally Held By Visit Wales Regarding Guiding Accrediation

My comments are in italics - Original file can be found here:

20th February 2021 WOTGA stated ‘WATO does not take account of the training received for a qualified Blue or Green Badge Guide. ’The result is that all of the WOTGA qualified guides are barred from advertising countryside strolls on the VISIT WALES website unless they have been inspected by WATO.’

Visit Wales needs to recognise that there are two different markets who wish to visit the countryside.

1. Those wishing to have an adventure

2. Those wanting a slower pace with more information than high octane adventure

My court action followed this email and Visit Wales declined to make this evidence, of others making the same complaint, available to the judge. Is that getting rather close to perjury?

20th March 2021 WOTGA questioned the need for accreditation and asked that the website is changed so that guides could tick guided walking. To date this has not been resolved. 

30th April 2021 A technical advisor stated ‘May well be worth reviewing the walking listings- although I would hope that all those displaying do need accreditation.’

Yes he would say that. He is paid £250 plus expenses for each guide he ‘inspects’…

30th April 2021 Visit Wales asked this question ‘do we need to go through the walking' listings to ensure we don't ask for WATO when no longer a requirement?’

13th January 2022 Another business led by a mountain leader queried the accreditation scheme

22nd February 2022 Another complaint regarding WATO insistence upon the 30 minute rule. 

20th August 2023 Visit Wales say ‘30 minutes of the vehicle or equivalent’

I suggest equivalent should be a road, farmhouse etc. I’ve asked for clarification but received none and now Visit Wales insist it is 30 minutes from the guides vehicle that triggers the need for inspection

6th September 2023 A technical advisor to Visit Wales stated that Wales Outdoors does not agree with a third party audit of it’s business.

Damn right I don’t! It’s none of their business. I am a professional of 30 years who has consistently worked to a higher standard of provision than the licensed adventure activity providers in Wales. Not one other tourism portal asks for this level of nanny stateism compliance from it’s suppliers. Wales Outdoors could be listed on every other national and local government portal in the UK, just not Visit Wales.

4th September 2023 Visit Wales discuss removing accreditation for guided walks as well as the devolved Welsh Government bringing in mandatory licensing for the same!

I agree with the first but am wholly against the second proposition, although, knowing the Welsh Government, it’s the mandatory route that will be taken…

14th September 2023 Visit Wales discuss Wales Outdoors:

The correspondence has not gone out yet. I'd suggest holding fire on this front whilst we agree next steps on the review

The wording in the correspondence will be (to Kevin Brennan MP)

‘We are not aware that other outdoor activity providers have raised any issues around this approach. but we are nevertheless taking Mr Lamb's concerns very seriously and we will look again at our processes to ensure they are fit-for-purpose and report back on the results to Mr Lamb /you when this process is concluded.’

At no point over the past three and a half years have Visit Wales declared to me that there were others questioning their accreditation scheme. Visit Wales advised Dawn Bowden AM, the minister responsible, to respond to my MP, Kevin Brennan, with the above quoted paragraph. This prompted an FOI request which revealed some truth in that matter, I was not alone but one of at least 74 complainants! Visit Wales lied to their minister…

14th September 2023 Visit Wales removed my training website, Mountain Training UK, from their website.

They did this without informing me despite the site containing only training below 600m and available to 18 plus and so outside the scope of UK licensing guidelines.

15th September 2023 Visit Wales discuss ‘ Could we not use a sticker that is clearly an outdoor safety related sticker though for example WATO accredited? How would that create a risk for the accommodation sector?’

I’m on board with this as a way forwards and it’s good to know that Visit Wales have started to move a little, at least in theory. I’ll push for this at the meeting.

You can book our walks through the Wales Outdoors Website or, if you are a group, you can book us for a bespoke adventure, you choose the date and time, using the ‘Book Your Guide’ option.

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